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Var1ables US Var1ables
Name: Forrest Campbell
Age: 25
Location: California
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online leagues; good or bad?

Over the last few months we've seen leagues come and go; but their have been a recent trend for online leagues, GROWTH. Heck i think 5 new leagues have been launched since the end of the last CEVOP season of source alone. Personally i see this as a great thing for the community as a whole, and I will explain this in the next couple of paragraphs.

Firstly, it's my strong belief that the more competition we have, the better we will all become. So the more leagues(for north America in particular) that are available, the better the community will do internationally. With this we can bring back some of the pride we had earlier this decade in teams like, 3D/x3, zEx, tsg/U5, rival/gamercompany/ouch and lastly, and most impressively, compLexity.

Secondly it'll allow for more people to make a name for themselves. The more leagues that their are available, and more importantly, the more teams compete in many of them, the more likely that we'll see two things. 1) that their be one team that just sweeps them all or 2) that their be a multitude of teams that trade off who wins, which, in my view, is better because it allows for stiffer competition.

Finally, with these new leagues, it'll allow for more practice for the LAN events, however bad/few there are. As much as i want the former CGS pros to come back and dominate like they used to, time is starting to tick away for some of these player; they are getting "real" lives, and us, the next generation of gamers, need to step it up. To my knowledge their is only one top pro who in under 20(Jordan "n0thing" Gilbert) in the united states; and he's a straight prodigy. Really sad that we haven't been able to produce more. Look at Sweden, they produced zet and iNs(both played for NiP i might add) right before the birth of the CGS, and more recently showed us Get_Right and Gux , who played exceptionally well with what many consider the best player in the world, f0rest, at EM finals, and they have 297 MILLIONless people. You'd think that out of that, based on number alone we'd have more super star, but it is not so.

TL;DR - More leagues = Good, better practice, better for starters, and more likely to see new stars as a result of them.

Comments: Add a Comment

quote#1 US GCTVN-Justin 06/04/2009 - 23:39:41
Well, as we said in our show (You know the one that brang this topic up?) the community will not support the new leagues regardless of good intentions or not. A majority of gamers laugh at the leader in upcoming leagues (BOE), and reject other tournament/league sites like the XPL, ETLGames and others.

An example we brang up was CAL - People day after day said CAL needs to bring money and/or prizes for the winners of each division, leading us to recognize that a lot of the dedicated/hardcore gamers we see playing counter-strike prefer the pay2play league style. (We understand free to play is necessary, obviously not everyone wants to put forth money to play the game)

For future leagues to come into play and offer these same prizes that CEVO and ESEA do need to be heavily funded by an outside source. ESEA, one example we gave, is short roughly -$8,685 for their Counter-Strike 1.6 league. (5players * teams - prizemoney, which will be off because that's based on 5 players per team, some have more, etc)

Now that's 1,447 premium subscribers to make that difference if no other funding was taken from sponsors.

New leagues also NEED the professional support, and frankly, why would a professional team want to play in a free to play league? Please remember, they all dropped out of CAL - and if you try to play the CGS game - remember, none of them rejoined after. Every team that starts up wants to be the next big team, and they will follow in the footsteps of the professionals.

I, probably just like you, want to see more leagues emerge and have a variety of options on where to play, but how can new leagues compete with ESEA/CEVO/ESL?

quote#2 US GCTVN-Justin 06/04/2009 - 23:46:26
We came up with some more stats based on winnings, etc - We have the show notes we used uploaded.

http://justin.gctvn.com/shownotes/basementcritic_ep1.html

quote#3 US peawok 07/04/2009 - 00:35:40
nice post by both of you.

quote#4 US Var1ables 07/04/2009 - 01:01:26
Now i'll say this much, i listened to your podcast live.....and i agreed with some of what you sad, but on the other hand you had some misinformed statements(such as VALVE recently stating that noone has ever had to play them anything to hold any tournaments;ever.)
Originally posted by US GCTVN-JustinWell, as we said in our show (You know the one that brang this topic up?) the community will not support the new leagues regardless of good intentions or not. A majority of gamers laugh at the leader in upcoming leagues (BOE), and reject other tournament/league sites like the XPL, ETLGames and others.
What community are you speaking too? Gotfrags? most people who i know who ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT COMPETITION are HAPPY that new leagues are coming up and growing. Look at BoE's tournament, upwards of 700 teams signed up.......the brackets are RIDICULOUS.
Now i'll say this much, i listened to your podcast live.....and i agreed with some of what you sad, but on the other hand you had some misinformed statements(such as VALVE recently stating that noone has ever had to play them anything to hold any tournaments;ever.)
Originally posted by US GCTVN-Justin
For future leagues to come into play and offer these same prizes that CEVO and ESEA do need to be heavily funded by an outside source. ESEA, one example we gave, is short roughly -$8,685 for their Counter-Strike 1.6 league. (5players * teams - prizemoney, which will be off because that's based on 5 players per team, some have more, etc)

Now that's 1,447 premium subscribers to make that difference if no other funding was taken from sponsors.

All leagues, including NFL, NBA and others are heavily sponsored by outside sources. It's the nature of the beast, it is not new. At all.
[quote]New leagues also NEED the professional support, and frankly, why would a professional team want to play in a free to play league? Please remember, they all dropped out of CAL - and if you try to play the CGS game - remember, none of them rejoined after. Every team that starts up wants to be the next big team, and they will follow in the footsteps of the professionals.
This is what happened to CAL. coL, the best team in the league, dropped it because they focused on WEG, and then all the other teams followed. They "followed the money" to CEVO around the same time, but remember for a while they played BOTH.
[quote]
I, probably just like you, want to see more leagues emerge and have a variety of options on where to play, but how can new leagues compete with ESEA/CEVO/ESL?
How could ESL compete with inferno online?How could WCG compete with ESWC? How could CEVO compete with CAL? If it's ran good enough, they will take over the other ones.

quote#5 US GCTVN-Justin 07/04/2009 - 09:35:44
They are heavily sponsored because of the spectators and revenue involved. Sponsoring a new gaming league with $10,000 in startup cash (lets make an easy number) - WILL the league be able to return that companies investment? Probably not.

CGS chose Counter-Strike source because they were not a typical league. Remember they HAD to market to the television audience to make the league successful. Why would you show 1.6 over a "prettier" game like source?

CGS took on the role of marketing towards general gamers. They showed games on TV that many people have never seen play "professionally" if they even knew professional gaming even existed. Playing games on ESPN wont work, the same reason why you probably wont watch golf, but you would play a round or two.

Leagues definitely compete, but remember ESL had the Euro scene before it came to the US (foundation built), ESEA had the pug system and was bringing in a cash flow prior, and during, the league (foundation built), and CAL introduced the original 8 week league format that all leagues use today (foundation built BEFORE money was even at play) - CEVO came in at the same time BOE did, when leagues were sparce (remember that UGS/UGL I forget what the name is, and XPL both croaked leaving us with CAL/OGL)

BOE has a standing shot, but I think the majority of the community is against it. A lot of things are out of there control, but just last night they are having the entire round 2 replayed because of server issues. Slowly people are pealing off of the league - well, tournaments for now.

quote#6 US Var1ables 07/04/2009 - 16:16:48
Originally posted by US GCTVN-JustinLeagues definitely compete, but remember ESL had the Euro scene before it came to the US (foundation built), ESEA had the pug system and was bringing in a cash flow prior, and during, the league (foundation built), and CAL introduced the original 8 week league format that all leagues use today (foundation built BEFORE money was even at play) - CEVO came in at the same time BOE did, when leagues were sparce (remember that UGS/UGL I forget what the name is, and XPL both croaked leaving us with CAL/OGL)

I think you missed my point. ESL was not the first league in europe/sweden; inferno online league was, to my knowledge, founded before ESL and competed directly with ESL for a while, but recently been taken over by ESL. So these "leagues" have had competitors, and have to FIGHT to survive. That's what i was getting at.

quote#7 US GCTVN-Justin 07/04/2009 - 20:40:17
Correct, but each league had something new to bring to the table. CAL brang the "season" instead of the challenge ladders we have seen previously. CEVO brang the pay to play, ESEA brang all of the perks mentioned in the show notes (server, hltv, stats, etc for every match) along with a higher prize pot.

ESL is a challenge ladder, one team challenges another. The only league as far as I know in North America that does that is OGL. ("bigger" league) - Did ESL bring back the leisure of a challenge ladder to the Euro players?

My point is BOE has nothing new to bring to the table. They will have mediocre cash handouts, mediocre perks (anticheat), and so far have proven themselves as a mediocre league at best.

While I understand BOE is new, so new it hasn't had a league begin yet - just tournaments for placement and entry - it has had its fair share of hiccups. With server problems, website problems, and just this week of Round 2 they are still in the process of having all the teams replay their matches.

I understand 100% that a majority of this is out of there control, shit happens, and I still support them but they need a little short of a miracle to win back the community that will either make or break this league.

I want BOE to succeed, I really do, but I personally don't see it happening past the first season. (remember FGL, or even XPL?) You can have the best in the world, but if the players/media don't support it, its game over.

quote#8 US ephemol 08/04/2009 - 23:17:09
Mah boi variables up in da scene. Do ya thing fly boy.

quote#9 GB Nookie 08/06/2010 - 03:07:14
I prefere LANs just because they are more sociable especially on css due to vac unless the server is using eac =D

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